About Socialist Zionism


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  • #1 written by Fred
    about 3 years ago

    Um, Yael, wouldn’t you say that study of Talmud and keeping a traditional Shabbat have unified Jews and have served as strong cultural markers for Jews for centuries?
    Would your definition of cultural Zionism embrace this?

    Just trying to tease out the boundaries of cultural Zionism. To me it seems like an impossible maze from which there is really no coherent consistent way out.
    Help!

  • #2 written by Yael
    about 3 years ago

    Fred,

    I think it is much more (certainly for me!) like when you go to a museum and you admire the works of art and say how nice, look at the aesthetics, consider this and that, consider what influenced the artist to do this and how what he or she did influenced others to do that –but you don’t then go home and attempt to create those works of art yourself :P . And of course, you also don’t share the base belief (in this case g-d) of the people who created those works of art.

    And actually, I would argue –and have a great deal of historical proof –that study of the Talmud is something that has always been done by the few within our culture (e.g., the Rabbis and those with rabbinic inclinations) and not by the average Jew. The Hasidic movement for instance started back in Poland in the 1700s as an attempt to bring Torah to the people because the current studiers of Talmud at the time had become very involved in the minutae of the laws and had very little contact with the average Jew in his community (the merchants, bankers, beggers and so forth –actually had quite a bit of disdain for the “uneducated” masses) and the average Jew had very little connection to the religion itself save through the traditions passed down, the food, and being branded as an outcast by the wider community in which he lived because he or she was a Jew. If you go back and read the writings of the Ba’al Shem Tov and his disciples at the time you can see how he laments that most Jews were not keeping the sabbath.

  • #3 written by Ami
    about 3 years ago

    Hello from a fellow cat lover and American Israeli,
    For Norbert – National Socialism was a slogan used by Hitler, but Zionist Socialism predated Fascism by many years and its founders were genuine socialists. Your equation betrays your ignorance. A page about labor zionism and socialist Zionism: Labor Zionism

    A page about Zionism ZIonism and the creation of Israel

    An article about Urban Kibbutz: Urban Kibbutz:: Socialist-Zionist pioneering in Israeli cities

    For Fred – The Tanach is the basis of Zionist cultural attachment to the Jewish heritage. The Talmud is not, because the Talmud is not a national document. It reflects Jewish life under foreign rule, and the Babylonian Talmud was not a product of the Land of Israel.

    Yael – Ask someone how to fix the template in your blog so that your picture shows up at the top of the page in Internet Explorer 6.

  • #4 written by Ami
    about 3 years ago

    Yael,
    I put a big long comment here before but it went up in smoke when I submitted it – got an error message about fixing “none” and something else in some blacklist.

  • #5 written by Yael
    about 3 years ago

    Ami –great comments and links, thank you! My site moderation (I get a lot of Norberts) is only semi-functioning and sometimes holds up in moderation some of the comments that should go through as it did to yours. I’ve approved them both (obviously) and so they are up!

  • #6 written by Ivy
    about 3 years ago

    Wow, thank you so much for this. I found your site by accident, checking my spelling of something (Google-as-dictionary method) and… I am so impressed, now I’ve bookmarked it. I have argued endlessly with people (in the US) who insist (very annoyingly) that Socialism and Zionism don’t mix – this page is quite an antidote to my frustration! And the rest of your site looks useful to me as well, to say the least. Coincidentally, I personally know a cat who was rescued near Tel Aviv! It strikes a chord to know that you’re working with cats there. Toda.

  • #7 written by Andrew Brehm
    about 3 years ago

    “try convincing the palestinians it isnt when the israeli regime seems intent on claiming all territory it can in the west bank”

    How exactly does it seem that way? The way I see it Israel controlled the area since 1967 and has so far created a few settlements, some of them already removed again.

    Israel could legally claim all the territory won in a defensive war, I suppose, but I don’t remember that Israel has ever done that.

    Israel annexed East-Jerusalem and the Golan (which were not a part of Palestine). The rest Israel tried to give to the Arabs, but they so often refused it’s not even funny.

    “whilst denying the palestinains a state of their own.”

    Israel is not denying the Palestinian Arabs a state of their own. It was the Arabs who rejected the proposal, it was the Arabs who never founded such a state, and if they had founded such a state before 1967 Israel couldn’t have done anything to prevent it, and if the Arabs founded a state in Gaza today, and didn’t attack Israel, they would have their state.

    Don’t blame Israel for the Arabs’ lack of will to create a state!

  • #8 written by qies
    about 3 years ago

    some day you will all be kicked out to the same place you came from

  • #9 written by chaya
    about 3 years ago

    Eretz Yisrael is where we came from – originally!

  • #10 written by andrew
    about 3 years ago

    Shalom Yael,
    I’m a noachide from Australia and a true lover of Zion. I am as far removed from a socialist as you can get although I was a firebrand trade union delegate for 5 years. I’m also a Kahane supporter. However I am also a cat lover so who cares about minor differences….if you love Israel, the Jewish people and cats, you’re ok by me. You seem like a typical lovely jewish girl and I wish you every happiness.

    Andrew

  • #11 written by Ivan Korenyuk
    about 3 years ago

    Looking for something else*, Googloops dropt me Though no Israeli and no Jew and basically ignorant of most of the specific words you use, I feel like getting back to my Hebrew language course I left some 30 years ago and learning more and more about what you all are talking about. All I know is what I read in some Israeli newspapers (like Bitter Lemons) and what my (then) best friend whose parents survived pogroms in Lithuania told me between courses. He, Filipas, left me from Oakland to a moshav somewhere near Haifa.
    Anyway, I love this blog (as I do love cats and peaceful exchange), and I’ll be back — not by accident… And I’d have a bunch of questions, but I fear to hurt and bruise anyone here.

    * I tried to find what ישראל גרוזנברג means, and still don’t know what this means. Sorry for that!

  • #12 written by Ivan Korenyuk
    about 3 years ago

    Oops! I wrote, above, ‘what ישראל גרוזנברג means’ — I meant: who he is and he means for Israel’s History.

  • #13 written by Ivan Korenyuk
    about 3 years ago

    Oops! I wrote, above, ‘what ישראל גרוזנברג means’ — I meant: who he is and what he means for Israel’s History.

  • #14 written by Steven
    about 2 years ago

    Dear Yael,
    I think you have a very nice website with valuable ideas. Congratulations.

    Steven

  • #15 written by Stewart Mills
    about 1 year ago

    Shalom,

    Peace….

    We can use the word peace, shalom… and mean such different things. Andrew from Australia to whom do you wish peace?

    Do you wish peace for both Jews and Arabs – whether they are religious or not. Or is peace only for those who fit the racist Kahane mould? Do the Prophets mean nothing to you? Where is the love, justice and mercy we are called for.

    Andrew as a fellow Australian I weep when racism is directed towards either Jews or Arabs. Please talk again to your former trade union delegates and try and see the conflict from another point of view.

    As Europeans living in Australia on the stolen land of Aboriginal people we of all people should appreciate how Palestinians and Jews feel.

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