OlehGirl.com
So this whole “majority” thing, let’s break it down
Both Livni and Bibi are claiming they have the “majority” behind them. Livni claims it because her party got the most votes. Bibi claims it because, while his party did not get the most votes, more people voted for farther-right leaning parties than the rightist Kadima. [People, Kadima is in no way, shape or form, a Leftist party --take it from the die(d)-hard leftist here]. There are problems with both of these claims but Bibi actually has a bigger problem with it. Here’s why. Examine the “right-leaning” party platforms –and their subtexts –and see can you spot the difficulties in making this claim.
Yisrael Beitenu: Platform basics –two-state solution that not only divides up “greater Israel” but also gives away large sections that are bona-fide, unequivocally part of Israel proper because there are some of them there a-rabs sitting on it. This means giving away places like Um al Fakhem and it also means giving away big portions of east Jerusalem. Further, YB wants citizenship to be predicated on a loyalty oath and service (military) to the country. This is directed toward them there a-rabs but also and equally toward them there Ha-rah-deem. They don’t want no more of people’s hard-earned tax monies going toward them there super religious folks having tons of brats and not working either. Indeed, most of the Y.B. supporters I know consider the ha-ra-deem and their breeding like rabbits to be a greater threat to the country than them there a-rabs, only it is socially more acceptable to level the charges toward the a-rabs and thus allow them to put in place the same restrictions against those fearsome super religious people. Lieberman ran on the “I will bring about civil marriage” platform as well and ease of conversion (and his supporters are like yo, we like our pork and shrimp and wanna be able to buy them on shabbat).
Contrast this with Shas: party platform — no division of Jerusalem. In the past, prepared to relinquish land in return for peace, but a little uncomfortable with this policy given increased terror, still not opposed. Tons and oodles of money toward the rabbit-breeding ha-rah-deem and toward religious education. Absolutely no civil marriage and in fact, let the religious folks run education, marriage, no-shopping-on-Shabbat, no shrimps for dinner for you Y.B. supporters, and lots and lots of exemptions for “we don’t wanna serve in the military” for the super religious. “A vote for Y.B. is a vote for Satan.” Environment shmihronment.
Likud — We will not divide Jerusalem. Indeed, this divide or not-divide Jerusalem is really the only difference between Livni and Bibi regarding the Palestinians and any potential peace agreement. [Don't delude yourselves that, should it be politically expedient for him, he'd not divide Jerusalem in a heartbeat. After all, he was willing to completely undo the economic reforms he fought so hard to get in order to bring Shas in line with him.] Opposed to dismantling of major settlements. Continue economic reforms started by Netanyahu as Finance Minister meaning, we will bring Reaganesque economics back to Israel and make sure the poor become poorer and the middle class become poor too –unless you happen to be one of them fearsome really religious folks because we’ve popped into bed with Shas and so our hands are tied and we’ll give just them a bit of a break. Maintaining status quo in religious/state issues –yo no civil marriage for you and yeah you married couple with one of you with only paternal Jewish lineage you can’t be buried together. Environmental issues? Can you repeat the question we’ve not heard of this environment thing.
Kadima — The Israeli nation has a national and historic right to the whole of Israel. However, in order to maintain a Jewish majority, part of the Land of Israel must be given up to maintain a Jewish and democratic state therefore yo, there you go, take some bitlets (but not the whole thing) of east Jerusalem you Palestinians and get lost. Opposed to dismantling of major settlements. Continue to pursue a moderate, market-based economy meaning, we would do something, but believe us it won’t be enough, to keep the poor from becoming poorer and to keep the middle class clinging by their fingernails to keep from falling into the brink. We like the idea of civil marriage and go get buried however and next to whoever you like. We’ll give some kind of a fleeting nod to environmental issues (nod, yes they exist, shake, no we probably won’t do anything about them).
United Torah Judaism: Coalition of Ashkenazi ultra-orthodox parties representing the Hassidic and Lithuanian sects, Non-Zionist but would like to see laws strengthen Judaism in Israel. Like Shas, we want oodles of money for our religious sector and we want social services like buses without any women, well ok, we’ll let them ride in the back of the bus but really it would be better if we could strap them on top or maybe under the bus…Launched campaign aimed at swaying Arab votes in its direction basing its efforts on promise to protect arab sector’s interests against right-wing Yisrael Beiteinu’s ‘racist’ platform and appealed to the Arab voters “who care about matters of chastity and family honor.”
Hemmmm yeah I see a lot of shared interests here with the voters for one block clearly supporting the platforms of the other right-wing parties, don’t you…
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(Photo by Dani Machlis)


about 1 year ago
Lieberman got what he wanted. He’s in a position to be the deal maker. I actually think politically he’d have more sway in a Livni led coalition but I might be wrong. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out in the next week or two.
about 1 year ago
Well as you can see by the only partially tongue-in-cheek breakdown of the party platforms (their actual platforms are all in there) Lieberman will not be able to get any of the important aspects of his platform to come to fruition if he goes with the Bibi-Shas-UTJ block. With Livni, he can at least potentially see his work toward civil marriage and burial realized and (though probably not) easing of conversion standards. He has no hope of any of that if he climbs into a coalition with Shas, UTJ, and Likud.
about 1 year ago
Hello Yael,
I hope you are well. Even after the results of this election!
You say: “Bibi claims it because, while his party did not get the most votes, more people voted for farther-right leaning parties than the rightist Kadima.”
You are in Israel, not me. You should know that Kadima is not a rightist party! It is a leftist party, if not extreme leftist with their crazy goal of a two-state solution (goal shared blindly and stupidly by Netanyahu and others!!) I assume you made a typographic error.
You say:
“in order to maintain a Jewish majority, part of the Land of Israel must be given up to maintain a Jewish and democratic state therefore yo, there you go, take some bitlets (but not the whole thing) of east Jerusalem you Palestinians and get lost.”
So, I assume you are going to promote the creation of independent African states in the USA, as you know better than I that there are several US states that have a black majority!!!
If the Arabs are too numerous, send them back to their own Arab countries, as they expulsed Jews from the Arab countries only because they were Jews (at the declaration of Independence of Israel)!
Now on Jerusalem, do you really think that they want only East Jerusalem!! Basically, all Israel is their claim and they have maps showing Palestine as being the entire Israel, Tel Aviv included!!!
about 1 year ago
Berel, Nichtschwimmer, plätschert im seichten Fluss- plötzlich gerät er in eine tiefe Stelle und brüllt um Hilfe.
Schmerel : “Berel, was schreist du?”
“Ich habe keinen Grund!”
“Wenn du keinen Grund hast- was schreist du dann?”
about 1 year ago
Mongrel — lol, that is most excellent. Here guys is a translation of it so non-German speakers can enjoy too:
Berel, a non-swimmer, splashes around in a shallow river –suddenly he gets into a deep spot and hollers for help.
Schmerel: “Berel, why are you yelling?”
“I have no ground (as in English also synonym for reason)!”
“If you have no ground, why are you yelling then?”
about 1 year ago
Wipe –ok so by your definition (support for a two-state solution) we only have far Left parties in this country?
–scratching my head
about 1 year ago
To Mr. “Wipe Out Hamas”:
You’re an idiot. Shut up.
about 1 year ago
You say: “Wipe –ok so by your definition (support for a two-state solution) we only have far Left parties in this country?”
No, the religious party are rightwing parties. Usually, parties that promote a two-state solution are not rightwing!!! However, the Israelis went crazy. It all started by Sharon then Olmert who went crazy by becoming extreme left from rightwing! Now, even Netanyahu is crazy to even discuss this two-state abomination!
I have to admire you, Yael, when you keep silent when I ask you if you would agree that the USA creates independent African states within the USA!!
Same silence when I repeat the same idea this time applied to France with their more than 5 millions of Arabs. Should France create another Muslim state within the French borders to cater for the Muslims of France?!!!!!!!
Then I could even ask Germany to create a Turkish independent state inside Germany!!!!!!
And yet, for Israel, you the so-called oleh (supposedly strongly Zionist!! otherwise you would be living in the USA), you nevertheless bow without complaints to a two-state craziness or to any other round of land concessions in the horizon!!! It is hard to believe the way you treat your own adopted country, Israel!!!
Well, I guess, you are torn between many ideas because of your work environment that forces you to adopt unconsciously specific ideas at the expenses of others and that also forces you to switch off your own judgment, rationality and common sense to let “your” adopted ideas win despite the contradictions that the adoptions of your ideas must generate!
See an interesting tool, you who is supposed to think but who does not always use your mind for your points of view. See “HOW THEY VOTED: See Israel election results by city/sector ” at
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061917.html
Take care, Yael, and use your brain more concerning your political points of view
For instance, what you do not even want to think for the USA, France and Germany (creation of independent states within these countries in relation to the big number of foreign citizens), do NOT think of these crazy ideas for Israel (if it is not too much to ask)!!!!
Do not do unto others what you would not have others do unto you!!! It not only applies to human beings but you could also apply this wise saying to Israel in comparison to the other countries of the world!!!
about 1 year ago
Wipe Out, I understand your frustration, but I think that the future of the Palestinians is an important concern. I’m in favor of a two-state solution and in favor of peace—real peace, not just a cessation of hostilities.
about 1 year ago
OK, first of all, thanks Yaeli for describing the platforms of the right parties. I take it that you don’t really pretend to be a big fan of the Haredim
Now, before I comment, could you please give us the same breakdown for the major leftist parties, like Meretz and Labor?
The way I see things is that if you take away the whole Palestinian problem – and with it for now the issue of the Jewish identity of Israel – then the political issues today don’t really seem to be so different from when I was in Israel in the 80s. My Israeli friends at that time were most occupied with the influence of the ultra-religious parties on “regular” Israeli citizens.
The idea that a society has to feed a huge amount of people who simply refuse to do anything productive except for praying seems ludicrous (Mind, I am a very religious person, but I rather follow St. Benedict’s rule of ora et labora, pray AND work, or even Martin Luther’s rule, who has said: “Pray as if all working is useless AND work as if all praying is useless”). But what is worth is the stranglehold the Haredim and their supporters have on the civil society by being the only authority for marriage etc. As much as I believe that a country needs a solid moral base founded in its religious beliefs (and modern Europe has completely lost its moral base because of secularism), a multi-religious society needs to make some concessions to those who don’t follow the main stream.
Now, Shas and its fellow fans of the status quo in all things religious must not be too happy to see YB rise. I can perceive the difficulties of trying to put together a government with Shas, YB and Likud. However, Livni would have the same problem trying to incorporate Shas & Co.
If anything is supposed to fundamentally change here, the more secularized parties would have to work together and completely exclude the religious parties from any coalition. It won’t happen because all the politicians are too afraid to tangle with a quarter of the voters.
On the economic platform there seem not to be too many differences between Likud and Kadima, who believe in market economics. It rather seems that the other parties all believe mostly in subsidizing their own electorate. While the religious parties would funnel most money to their praying fans, the left would funnel it into state run services for all those who feel that taking it from the “rich” is always better than working themselves. The middle class will bleed in both cases.
Anyway, the way things are in the world, there is almost no wiggle-room for any grandiose economic projects. Israel’s government is as broke as any other in the West and its options are severely limited. Governments for decades now have only reacted to economic realities instead of shaping them, and there is no reason to assume that any party would do differently. No change here either.
Education: here it seems some reform is strongly needed. Having three separate systems seems a folly. But changing it will cost money and will diminish the power of those who now are in power, and from what I saw in Europe as well as here in the US, the fiercest protectors of the status quo are teachers’ unions and school administrators. They hate change unless change means more power and money in their pockets. Most politicians don’t have the guts to go against those powerhouses. Nothing will change.
Remains the unsolved issue of Israel’s identity. It seems to me that this is an issue beyond party politics, and that is why every politician will shy away from it. Actually it is Lieberman who for the first time has started to dismantle that taboo: if Israel is to remain “Jewish”, things have to be addressed, otherwise demographics will change the country. Nobody has come forward to propose real alternatives to his plan.
So, to finish this long post: It all smells terribly of “politics as usual”, no matter who will be PM or who will be in power. Nothing will change. And nobody believes that in this time and day anyone would be willing to divide Jerusalem again. It would be political suicide after the mess the last major concessions to the Arabs created, for example in Gaza. So no change here either.
So I can sit back and watch the rest of the game without getting upset about the eventual winner. Right?
about 1 year ago
Oh, and when it comes to buses without women, will there be buses with mostly women, too? And can I then ride on them, as well? May be even restrict these buses to women who are pretty and younger than 40?
I remember when I was in Mexico City the last time, the subway there has a provision allowing only women and persons travelling with children in certain cars in rush hour. Since I was travelling with my 2-year old daughter I was officially permitted to ride in that car in which there were mostly pretty Mexican women. There is something to that… (Is anyone calling me chauvinistic here??)
about 1 year ago
Why don’t you just give your government over to Obama.
He could solve all you problems just like he is solving America’s.
You aren’t racist are you?
about 1 year ago
Why don’t you just give your government over to Obama.
He could solve all your problems just like he is solving America’s.
You aren’t racist are you?
about 1 year ago
Steve, Obama has just been president for a short while, and in fairness, we shall have to see how well he handles the critical issues, both within the US and in foreign matters…
about 1 year ago
lynne, I respect your own points of view on the Palestinians but I surely disagree with them. And I will explain you why.
I am friends with any Jew of any political affiliation and of any religious affiliation, as long as I have a person who respects my own positions because I do not have the positions I have without a thorough background to support them.
And that is the way we should share our own points of view here or anywhere on the Internet or when we speak to others. Express our points of view, give the reasons why we have them in the first place and let us still be friends
Could it be said the same for many Jews who belong to the Israeli left? No is my answer according to my own experience and Lena’s rant against me is an example of that. The kind of immature and stupid rant against me by Lena demonstrates that she is still not very grown-up I could say. If she disagrees with me, she would need to tell me why my arguments are wrong for her!
Moreover, it is important that there are people who present different and completely opposite arguments on peace, the Palestinians and Israel than the ones Yael and her friends have. Why? Because it allows the reader to think further and to eventually see what is wrong in his/her way of thinking and if she uses rationality, logic and reason especially when assessing Israel’s position.
I am always ready to accept different points of view than mine when I am clearly explained why someone differs with my own positions. However, this kind of feedback is extremely rare. Even Yael is conspicuously silent on vital points that I sometimes raise and when it suits her too well I could say. But I think I understand why she keeps silent on sensitive points and I implicitly respect her silence.
You say:
“Wipe Out, I understand your frustration, but I think that the future of the Palestinians is an important concern. I’m in favor of a two-state solution and in favor of peace—real peace, not just a cessation of hostilities.”.
I already said why I am against a two-state solution so I will not repeat my position.
Concerning peace, a two-state solution will NOT provide LONG-TERM peace. And the important word is “LONG-TERM”. Peace would be declared and bogus peace agreements signed and bogus promises from the Palestinians made. But a two-state solution would only delay a final war to destroy Israel completely and transform Israel into a Muslim state Judenrei (free of Jews, as the Nazis loved to say!!).
Moreover, many among the Palestinians do not even want a two-state solution. They are for an all-or-nothing position. They want either that Israel become a Muslim state entirely (Tel Aviv included) or nothing!!! They do not want half-way measure like at two-state solution. That is why Arafat when he bargains to steal more lands wanted this all-or-nothing position and it was rejected!
Now the irony of the two-state solution is the following. Those among the Palestinians who ask for a two-state solution want this state to be “Judenrei” (free of Jews as the Nazis said)!!!! BUT they want all the Arab Muslims and non-Muslim to stay living inside the Jewish part of this two-state solution and keep growing further until a Muslim majority rises in the future (no matter how further it is). Judenrei for the Palestinian state and the Muslims remain in the Israeli part of this two-state solution!!! Is this type of two-state solution the kind of fair and honest decision that Israel is ready to swallow?!!! Nothing less than an abomination as I said before!!
All the best to all of you and to Lena too. No hard feelings! We just share points of view and even when we differs strongly, we can still be friends I hope, as long as we explain why we differ
about 1 year ago
yaeli you are killing me here. especially with the a-rabs and the har-adeem. it’s too much!
just checking you got the message about the rain check for tonight? see you next week yes?
about 1 year ago
Wipe Out — you need to do a bit more research into the Israeli political system. Prior to this election, the only religious party that opposed a two-state solution is the National Union party. For this election, the party split in two becoming The National Union and the Jewish Home parties respectively–and each got only 3 seats in the Knesset this time around –less than the Arab parties and on a par with Meretz. National Union is also saying it is not likely to coalition with Likud. The constituents of both are primarily made up of Srugim (religious settlers) and the majority of settlers did not vote for either of these parties.
The really (really really) religious parties are anti-zionist and against a Jewish State until the Moshiach comes.
about 1 year ago
Wow Yael. If I want to see the pen of insensitivity, I have found a good blog. While you are out lashing at everyone and calling them names, you forget to dish it out to those who obviously must be your own.
Instead of calling yourself simply “secular” while you tear everyone elses faces off, why not be fair and call your self a few things. Like “air-head” (since you court the 2 countries solution), “hih luny” (since they are ha ra deem), “shiksa” (since you like pork and shrimp which is so undesired by jews with an ounce of tradition), “dreamer” (since you live securley hugging the coastline, comfortably far enough away from the a-rabs that love you, and would do any manner of attrocities to you given the chance), “stupid” (since your ability to write grammatically and spell correctly does nothing for your iq), “hellenist” (since you happily espouse all the common beliefs and issues of the western democratic world with no decernment what so ever).
about 1 year ago
Yaeli and others who are mentioning Haredim,
I stumbled upon this very interesting discussion you are having and
I have visited Israel a number of times. I have met some Haredim and
they were employed at various jobs, just like anyone in the U.S. Also,
I found out that a large no. of religious males do go into the IDF. I am
curious – what kind of government subsidies do Haredim get that non-religious Israeli citizens don’t receive? I believe if you are a Yeshiva
student, you don’t get a whole lot of funding, so it doesn’t exactly sound
like a lucrative profession to me.
I love Israeli food – stuff impossible
to find anywhere in the U.S., but I like to be able to eat bacon and
shrimp whenever I want, too. I was thinking that the old kosher laws
had someting to do with food spoiling in the desert or something. I can’t
believe that a BLT is inherently evil, with “modern” refrigeration.
Now, besides food, what gets really interesting is that I hear there has
been a push in Israel to try and only admit Jews to immigration that
are either born Jewish by their ancestors or have converted to a
certain degree of “religiousness”. How religious do conversions to
Judiasm do potential Israeli immigrants have to be for their Aliyah to
be accepted?
Well, one thing you gotta say – if you have Haredim families multiplying
at a great rate, that is a lot of potential future soldiers for the IDF.
And potentially a lot more tax dollars, since a certain amount of Haredim
do and will in the future work at various jobs, expanding the tax base.
Or, am I wrong about this and some families manage to live off of “the dole”?
———————————————————————–
OK, first of all, thanks Yaeli for describing the platforms of the right parties. I take it that you don’t really pretend to be a big fan of the Haredim
Now, before I comment, could you please give us the same breakdown for the major leftist parties, like Meretz and Labor?
The way I see things is that if you take away the whole Palestinian problem – and with it for now the issue of the Jewish identity of Israel – then the political issues today don’t really seem to be so different from when I was in Israel in the 80s. My Israeli friends at that time were most occupied with the influence of the ultra-religious parties on “regular” Israeli citizens.
The idea that a society has to feed a huge amount of people who simply refuse to do anything productive except for praying seems ludicrous (Mind, I am a very religious person, but I rather follow St. Benedict’s rule of ora et labora, pray AND work, or even Martin Luther’s rule, who has said: “Pray as if all working is useless AND work as if all praying is useless”). But what is worth is the stranglehold the Haredim and their supporters have on the civil society by being the only authority for marriage etc. As much as I believe that a country needs a solid moral base founded in its religious beliefs (and modern Europe has completely lost its moral base because of secularism), a multi-religious society needs to make some concessions to those who don’t follow the main stream.
about 1 year ago
Yaeli, I think that Wipe Out’s point is that no matter what the situation won’t be resolved in a way that would be acceptable to the Palestinians because their ultimate goal is the destruction on Israel. Am I right?
Wipe Out, I do agree that Hamas certainly says that loud and clear. Perhaps others do not feel that way though, particularly those in the West Bank. I know a few Palestinians who prefer the solution of the West Bank becoming part of Jordan and having Gaza being taken back by Egypt. So, there are other solutions out there that are being talked about. I cannot relate to the fact that the Palestinians leaders are inflexible (I mean some of them not all).For example, Texas where I live, about 160 years ago became independent from Mexico due to a conflict over the land. The matter was fought over, the dispute settled, and was accepted within 50 years or less. People moved on, settling on their lands as Texans no matter what their affiliation had been prior to independence. It was all over and their was resolution. It’s over. So, I have more than great difficulty understanding how this situation cannot be resolved. I know that there are conflicts now, and were in the past, of long-standing. It’s just that I cannot relate to it. My need for peace, calm, and an orderly life is too great for me to be willing to hold a grudge over politics and land. So, I understand your frustration.
I just hate the fact that this conflict exists without a solution, it seems. Makes me appreciate the fact that diversity is accepted in the US, and that we seem to be moving closer to equality and acceptance for all. Obama’s election, for example, seems to be the culmination of Dr. Martin Luther King’s dreams for this country.
about 1 year ago
Correction: Sentence should read, “It was all over and there was resolution.” oops
about 1 year ago
Wipe Out, I agree. We may not agree on some issues here but it is important to continue to show respect to each other and to keep dialogue open. We have an opportunity to learn from each other here and to share our ideas and feelings.
about 1 year ago
Lynne, in the history of mankind Texas, and in fact the whole United States, are a rare exception to the rule. The rule is rather that conflicts about land, especially conflicts between peoples on neighboring lands, are being fought for hundreds of years and often never resolved without the absolute military defeat of one side. And look at our own history: the United States were founded after the revolutionary war, but that wasn’t the end of the story. Only a few years later we had to fight the British again. And again. And again. It took a long time for the British to realize they would never get back this land.
We fought other neighbors as well, Mexico for example. Texas was settled and developed by Northern and European settlers even though it officially belonged to Mexico. The Mexicans just had no interest in it at that time, and yet General Santa Ana took his army to this then godforsaken land and fought for it, risking everything.
For hundreds of years the Europeans had only one pastime: waging war against each other. Germans and Frenchmen for example engaged in war between 1871 and 1945 three times with millions of casualties and no real change to their positions at all. The French and the English fought, the Germans and the Russians fought, the English and the Germans fought, the Italians and Austrians fought and so on and so on. Up to today the Europeand just love fighting: in the former Yugoslavia, in the former Soviet republics, in Corse, in Northern Ireland, in the Basque territories of Spain… there is hardly a place where there are no unsolved conflicts.
Asia knows the same kind of fun, for example in former Ceylon, and when it comes to Africa, it is an endless history of nonsensical bloody wars, especially since colonial times had ended.
So, sadly, there is no reason whatsoever to assume that the very young conflict between Israel and the Palestinians will be resolved soon by a peaceful settlement. It is much more likely that this conflict will go on another hundred years.
about 1 year ago
Reading this makes me hate Liebermann very slightly less.
about 1 year ago
Ah, Sir John, you are right. I should know better really after just reading two books on the history of Russia and the history of Ireland. All this warfare, just insane, isn’t it?
about 1 year ago
Pinchas –first of all, if you have read my blog for more than a nano-second you would know two things: First is that I am the last person on earth to eat pork or ANY other meat products given that I am a vegetarian and have been since a child. Second, I was quite obviously poking fun, not at the religious sector or at our Arab citizens (hello, a-rab?!) but rather at our various political parties, in particular those whom have a shall we say slightly less than PC slant to them but none of them are, like, shiny as they say in Firefly. Third, I work in an area that was quite frequently the target of grad rockets and fourth I have many arab friends, including Palestinians and am quite well-aware that none of them want to kill me. Hamas, I freely confess would be happy to see me dead as well as extremists from other branches.
Kee-rap, sarcasm and …oh well never mind, it is all lost on some people.