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	<title>Comments on: Excuse me, I&#8217;m an idiot</title>
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	<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604</link>
	<description>OlehGirl.com</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>Journalistic integrity is important but not more important than patriotism. And I am not saying that one should lie, they should just not report stuff that is harmful to the war effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Journalistic integrity is important but not more important than patriotism. And I am not saying that one should lie, they should just not report stuff that is harmful to the war effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Liza</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-2038</link>
		<dc:creator>Liza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jan 2007 07:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-2038</guid>
		<description>Good point, Rob. Over the years, when friends/family (and the occasional stranger) abroad have commented on how dangerous it is to live in Israel, I&#039;ve always pointed out that things aren&#039;t as bad as they look, as nobody&#039;s going to do a story about how &quot;nothing has happened in Israel today&quot;, so they only see and hear about the bad stuff. I do still stand by my original comment though, which you quoted (so I&#039;m not going to quote it again). I believe that journalistic integrity is important, even if it&#039;s not a trait that&#039;s shared by all journalists. Maybe it is naive, but I still believe in stuff like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Rob. Over the years, when friends/family (and the occasional stranger) abroad have commented on how dangerous it is to live in Israel, I&#8217;ve always pointed out that things aren&#8217;t as bad as they look, as nobody&#8217;s going to do a story about how &#8220;nothing has happened in Israel today&#8221;, so they only see and hear about the bad stuff. I do still stand by my original comment though, which you quoted (so I&#8217;m not going to quote it again). I believe that journalistic integrity is important, even if it&#8217;s not a trait that&#8217;s shared by all journalists. Maybe it is naive, but I still believe in stuff like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1993</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Dec 2006 07:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1993</guid>
		<description>&quot;A journalistâ€™s job is to report the news - sometimes itâ€™s good and sometimes itâ€™s bad, but either way, itâ€™s news, and objectivity is key in honest, respectable journalism. Weâ€™re not talking about passing secrets to the enemy here. Whatâ€™s the point if weâ€™re not getting the whole truth?&quot;

That&#039;s being a bit naive. It&#039;s what journos say, not what they do. A journalist&#039;s real job is not to get the news, but to get the &lt;b&gt;stories&lt;/b&gt;. Bad news is a good story and good news is not a story at all. Truth? Not their department. Increasingly, these days, it&#039;s the blogosphere&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A journalistâ€™s job is to report the news &#8211; sometimes itâ€™s good and sometimes itâ€™s bad, but either way, itâ€™s news, and objectivity is key in honest, respectable journalism. Weâ€™re not talking about passing secrets to the enemy here. Whatâ€™s the point if weâ€™re not getting the whole truth?&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s being a bit naive. It&#8217;s what journos say, not what they do. A journalist&#8217;s real job is not to get the news, but to get the <b>stories</b>. Bad news is a good story and good news is not a story at all. Truth? Not their department. Increasingly, these days, it&#8217;s the blogosphere&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1978</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1978</guid>
		<description>You realize  I meant American journalists should only report news that make the US look good in our wars, not other issues.  And there are lots of good things going on regarding Iraq, but our News Media won&#039;t report on them.

Patriotism should come first.  Journalists shouldn&#039;t be immune from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You realize  I meant American journalists should only report news that make the US look good in our wars, not other issues.  And there are lots of good things going on regarding Iraq, but our News Media won&#8217;t report on them.</p>
<p>Patriotism should come first.  Journalists shouldn&#8217;t be immune from that.</p>
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		<title>By: Liza</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1976</link>
		<dc:creator>Liza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1976</guid>
		<description>A journalist&#039;s job is to report the news - sometimes it&#039;s good and sometimes it&#039;s bad, but either way, it&#039;s news, and objectivity is key in honest, respectable journalism. We&#039;re not talking about passing secrets to the enemy here. What&#039;s the point if we&#039;re not getting the whole truth? 

If American journalists could only report news that made the US look good, there&#039;d be a lot of empty pages in the newspapers, I think...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A journalist&#8217;s job is to report the news &#8211; sometimes it&#8217;s good and sometimes it&#8217;s bad, but either way, it&#8217;s news, and objectivity is key in honest, respectable journalism. We&#8217;re not talking about passing secrets to the enemy here. What&#8217;s the point if we&#8217;re not getting the whole truth? </p>
<p>If American journalists could only report news that made the US look good, there&#8217;d be a lot of empty pages in the newspapers, I think&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1961</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1961</guid>
		<description>If we go according to your statement, what the Reuters photographer did when he manipulated photos of the events in Qana was acceptable, as he was only â€œhelping the war effortâ€ for his country.


Well there is a difference between not reporting something and lying about what you are reporting.

But still I guess from his perspective what he did was acceptable although from the perspective of Reuters they shouldn&#039;t have allowed him to get away with it.

Patriotism should always come first.  As for American journalists they should only report the news that makes the US look good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we go according to your statement, what the Reuters photographer did when he manipulated photos of the events in Qana was acceptable, as he was only â€œhelping the war effortâ€ for his country.</p>
<p>Well there is a difference between not reporting something and lying about what you are reporting.</p>
<p>But still I guess from his perspective what he did was acceptable although from the perspective of Reuters they shouldn&#8217;t have allowed him to get away with it.</p>
<p>Patriotism should always come first.  As for American journalists they should only report the news that makes the US look good.</p>
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		<title>By: Liza</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1957</link>
		<dc:creator>Liza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1957</guid>
		<description>&quot;Domestic Reporters are supposed to report during wartime whatever helps the war effort and not report anything that hurts it.&quot;

I disagree. A reporter must do his or her best to remain objective, especially during difficult times. If we go according to your statement, what the Reuters photographer did when he manipulated photos of the events in Qana was acceptable, as he was only &quot;helping the war effort&quot; for his country.

The same goes for American journalists covering the war in Iraq. These individuals have a duty to report all the news, not only the news that makes the US look good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Domestic Reporters are supposed to report during wartime whatever helps the war effort and not report anything that hurts it.&#8221;</p>
<p>I disagree. A reporter must do his or her best to remain objective, especially during difficult times. If we go according to your statement, what the Reuters photographer did when he manipulated photos of the events in Qana was acceptable, as he was only &#8220;helping the war effort&#8221; for his country.</p>
<p>The same goes for American journalists covering the war in Iraq. These individuals have a duty to report all the news, not only the news that makes the US look good.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1935</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1935</guid>
		<description>I left this comment at Good Neighbours so I thought I&#039;d drop it here too. Feel free to delete.

I&#039;ve been reading the posts on the conference here and at Liza&#039;s place  and Yaeli&#039;s and all the comments that have been made.

I&#039;m conscious that Lisa said on some post or other that people outside Israel tend to make fools of themselves when commenting on what goes on there. I&#039;m writing as a friend of Israel -- though not an uncritical one -- living in Australia, so I may well fall into that category.

That said, I want to say a couple of things in defence of Richard Landes and what I think was trying to be achieved in the holding of this conference.

Perhaps one thing we see more clearly than you do is how badly Israel is imaged in the international media, and the way that impacts the legitimacy of Israel in the court of (educated) public opinion. The relentless negativity seeps out from the media&#039;s coverage into community perceptions, with all the implications for political support that entails. A while back, I said to my wife that I wanted to visit Israel some time in the near future. Why on earth, she asked? To show that I support Israel, I said. She paused: funny thing, that, she said thoughtfully; almost nobody else does. 

Do you guys realise that &#039;progressive&#039; public opinion in the west -- and I think you would see yourselves as &#039;progressive&#039;, right? -- has swung way, way over from opposing specific Israeli actions to supporting exterminationist programs? Do you realise that the broad left in the US, Australia and Europe has few problems and no apologies in absorbing classic anti-semitic tropes into its anti-Israel rhetoric? That tens of thousands of people world-wide rallied behind the Hizbollah flag during the July-August war, and chanted &#039;Palestine will be free from the river to the sea&#039;, fully aware that what they were calling for was the extirpation of Israel?

Israel&#039;s supporters in the west have real problems with this. (I am sure Israel does too.) But because of the way Israel is routinely portrayed in the west -- as a genocidal apartheid state by such luminaries as Jimmy Carter -- we&#039;re now a dwindling few. Not one in a hundred thousand who remember the media stories about massacres in Jenin knows that they were shown by the UN itself to be false. Not one in a hundred thousand who responded with revulsion to the media images of the deaths in Qana knows that rockets were fired from there into Israel, or that the recovery of the bodies was staged as a deliberate propaganda exercise. Not one in a hundred thousand who saw the stories about the attack on the Red Cross ambulances knows the stories were false. And virtually none of the millions who watched the &#039;killing&#039; of Mohammed al Durah know the footage was faked. That&#039;s the work that Richard Landes and others have been doing: to try and turn the lies and libels around.

I could not count the number of arguments I&#039;ve had on the blogosphere here in Oz defending Israel, popularly described as &#039;a self-contained axis of evil&#039;. How many times I&#039;ve pointed out that it is Israel that accepts a two-state solution, but that Hamas, Hizbollah (explicitly) and the Arab and Islamic states (implicitly -- explicitly in Iran&#039;s case, of course) do not. That Israel wants to live in peace with its neighbours, and the fanatics against whom it is ranged simply want to see it cease to exist. Hollow laughs all round, folks.

Richard Landes has been pointing these things out for a long time now. It was disturbing to see him castigated at Liza&#039;s place. Maybe the conference played host to some fanatics on the Israeli side, though Landes was not one of them. But let&#039;s be cautious of naivete. Perhaps if things were as they ought to be, the milk of human kindness would be just what it takes to resolve all the problems of the world. But that&#039;s not the real world and some, inside Israel and outside, can recognise that.

Of course there are many good people on both sides, and it&#039;s truly great to see sites like this one where they can come together and talk. But the men with the power and the guns don&#039;t come here. And the chilling thought is that if they did, they would come here with one intention and one intention only.

Not the right kind of comment for Good Neighbours, I realise that. But Blogger doesn&#039;t let me comment at Liza&#039;s where this contribution more properly belongs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I left this comment at Good Neighbours so I thought I&#8217;d drop it here too. Feel free to delete.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been reading the posts on the conference here and at Liza&#8217;s place  and Yaeli&#8217;s and all the comments that have been made.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m conscious that Lisa said on some post or other that people outside Israel tend to make fools of themselves when commenting on what goes on there. I&#8217;m writing as a friend of Israel &#8212; though not an uncritical one &#8212; living in Australia, so I may well fall into that category.</p>
<p>That said, I want to say a couple of things in defence of Richard Landes and what I think was trying to be achieved in the holding of this conference.</p>
<p>Perhaps one thing we see more clearly than you do is how badly Israel is imaged in the international media, and the way that impacts the legitimacy of Israel in the court of (educated) public opinion. The relentless negativity seeps out from the media&#8217;s coverage into community perceptions, with all the implications for political support that entails. A while back, I said to my wife that I wanted to visit Israel some time in the near future. Why on earth, she asked? To show that I support Israel, I said. She paused: funny thing, that, she said thoughtfully; almost nobody else does. </p>
<p>Do you guys realise that &#8216;progressive&#8217; public opinion in the west &#8212; and I think you would see yourselves as &#8216;progressive&#8217;, right? &#8212; has swung way, way over from opposing specific Israeli actions to supporting exterminationist programs? Do you realise that the broad left in the US, Australia and Europe has few problems and no apologies in absorbing classic anti-semitic tropes into its anti-Israel rhetoric? That tens of thousands of people world-wide rallied behind the Hizbollah flag during the July-August war, and chanted &#8216;Palestine will be free from the river to the sea&#8217;, fully aware that what they were calling for was the extirpation of Israel?</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s supporters in the west have real problems with this. (I am sure Israel does too.) But because of the way Israel is routinely portrayed in the west &#8212; as a genocidal apartheid state by such luminaries as Jimmy Carter &#8212; we&#8217;re now a dwindling few. Not one in a hundred thousand who remember the media stories about massacres in Jenin knows that they were shown by the UN itself to be false. Not one in a hundred thousand who responded with revulsion to the media images of the deaths in Qana knows that rockets were fired from there into Israel, or that the recovery of the bodies was staged as a deliberate propaganda exercise. Not one in a hundred thousand who saw the stories about the attack on the Red Cross ambulances knows the stories were false. And virtually none of the millions who watched the &#8216;killing&#8217; of Mohammed al Durah know the footage was faked. That&#8217;s the work that Richard Landes and others have been doing: to try and turn the lies and libels around.</p>
<p>I could not count the number of arguments I&#8217;ve had on the blogosphere here in Oz defending Israel, popularly described as &#8216;a self-contained axis of evil&#8217;. How many times I&#8217;ve pointed out that it is Israel that accepts a two-state solution, but that Hamas, Hizbollah (explicitly) and the Arab and Islamic states (implicitly &#8212; explicitly in Iran&#8217;s case, of course) do not. That Israel wants to live in peace with its neighbours, and the fanatics against whom it is ranged simply want to see it cease to exist. Hollow laughs all round, folks.</p>
<p>Richard Landes has been pointing these things out for a long time now. It was disturbing to see him castigated at Liza&#8217;s place. Maybe the conference played host to some fanatics on the Israeli side, though Landes was not one of them. But let&#8217;s be cautious of naivete. Perhaps if things were as they ought to be, the milk of human kindness would be just what it takes to resolve all the problems of the world. But that&#8217;s not the real world and some, inside Israel and outside, can recognise that.</p>
<p>Of course there are many good people on both sides, and it&#8217;s truly great to see sites like this one where they can come together and talk. But the men with the power and the guns don&#8217;t come here. And the chilling thought is that if they did, they would come here with one intention and one intention only.</p>
<p>Not the right kind of comment for Good Neighbours, I realise that. But Blogger doesn&#8217;t let me comment at Liza&#8217;s where this contribution more properly belongs.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1933</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 04:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1933</guid>
		<description>Israeli journalists should have been more like Ernie Pyle and less like Joseph Goebbels.

Sure all the International news outlets love anti-Israeli news and providing anti-Israeli news is the quickest way for Israeli Journalists to advance their careers and gain accolades from the international journalistic community but shouldn&#039;t patriotism come before one&#039;s career?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israeli journalists should have been more like Ernie Pyle and less like Joseph Goebbels.</p>
<p>Sure all the International news outlets love anti-Israeli news and providing anti-Israeli news is the quickest way for Israeli Journalists to advance their careers and gain accolades from the international journalistic community but shouldn&#8217;t patriotism come before one&#8217;s career?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://olehgirl.com/?p=604&#038;cpage=1#comment-1923</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 20:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://olehgirl.com/?p=604#comment-1923</guid>
		<description>â€œarenâ€™t journalists supposed to be motivated to report the truth and the news, not something that is or is not against or in favor of Israeli interests?â€

No, not during war time. When it comes to issues of national security they are supposed to report in a way that helps that effort. 

Of course I am talking about citizens of the country who are journalists.  Patriotism should come first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>â€œarenâ€™t journalists supposed to be motivated to report the truth and the news, not something that is or is not against or in favor of Israeli interests?â€</p>
<p>No, not during war time. When it comes to issues of national security they are supposed to report in a way that helps that effort. </p>
<p>Of course I am talking about citizens of the country who are journalists.  Patriotism should come first.</p>
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